Hey everyone. Team Five O has been working on a few concepts for improvements to wormhole mechanics and we wanted to run one idea by you all to start some discussion in the community. This idea has already been discussed with the CSM, and we don't currently have specific plans to implement it but we think it's at least worth getting discussion started.

We have been thinking about and discussing the way that the Sensor Overlay has affected Wormhole life, mainly in the ease with which players can now observe new wormhole signatures appearing (which often indicates that the entry of hostile players may be imminent).
We investigated what would be involved with delaying the appearance of signatures on the sensor overlay, but that solution is somewhat unsatisfactory since players could always return to the old trick of spamming probe scans to check for the new sigs. Basically, the Sensor Overlay had only made the existing problem more visible, and it would be better if we could get right to the source.

The potential change would be to delay the appearance of the signature beacon when K162 dungeons spawn. This would prevent the dungeon from appearing on probe scans or the Sensor Overlay for up to a few minutes.

This change would make life in wormholes a bit less safe, and increase the sense of real danger that unknown space should include. The flipside is that actively hunting for pvp in wormholes should present more targets that have a slightly shorter notice to your arrival.

The delay could take a few potential forms, either a set timer of a couple minutes, a timer that has random elements or even one that is variable depending on the amount of mass that passes through the wormhole.

This would obviously be a very significant change to wormhole mechanics, and we think it may be a very good opportunity to shake up wormhole life and further encourage the best parts of the wormhole experience.

I'd like to repeat that this change is currently not planned for any specific release, but we would like to start community discussion on the idea and see where it goes.

Let us know what you think in this thread, and we'll be watching closely.
Thanks!
-Fozzie

I completely disagree with the notion that you can farm wormholes nearly risk free. Twice in two months I've lost my C5 capital fleet to logoff traps, and I had friends evicted from theirs just a few weeks ago. The merits of the change I'm still vascillating on, but the statement that it's nearly risk free to farm wormholes is, in my opinion, just not true.

There seems to be a lot of angry ranting from gankers who feel like they should be given as many advantages as possible in order to win a fight. If there is enough preparation on the side of those looking for the fight, they have, as it stands, a pretty clear advantage already.

it's ganking on easy mode dude. It will force coalitions to form, a WH blue waffle, WH space will become monopolized like SoV is.

I should point out this would also stop a fleet who do want to PvP with whoever rolled into them, be that a group that are about to use caps to close their static or one with fifty T3s ready to rock, from finding that hole and getting their own scout onto or through it without using combat probes and relying on a ship sitting decloaked on the hole. This is going to have the effect of reducing a lot of kinds of non-ganking PvP.

as to the rest of your post, the "Big risk" is at least partially offered by the fact that there are billions of isk in capital ships, fixed in place, for the entire time you are doing your PvE. No other PvE activity has that requirement. Then there's the player and character skill involved.

IProblem is, you are AFRAID. You are the REAL carebears of Eve.

I really think people need to open their eyes and consider that the way it is right is fair. When you're on the ball and you pay attention, nothing can catch you, that's how it should be. The same goes for the hunter, if you know what you're doing you will catch people who don't.

It doesn't get more fair then that. Giving any sort of delay to K162's is unfair because it gives any hunter a head start which they should not have.

Don't use your condescending tone... You're only trying to make this point because you're the aggressor.

I really liked the idea that was proposed earlier in the thread of some other form of ESS being employed in WH space.

The idea is to pay for the "safety" you are awarded now. You either can choose to have 80% of blue loot payout while 20% of it deposited to have the benefit of instant pop ups of k162, where you need 30 mins (or some amount of time to reloot that 20%), or have 100% of the payout with a delay to all k162 signatures. The numbers are arbitrary.

The way it is not ("free intel") is too safe and removes the element of ambiguity of wh space, but the old ways of mashing scan is also not very "engaging" and "active" gameplay, the same way the miner mashing f1 isn't very engaging or active either.

Ohh wait, let me bow down to your lordship... You are right, we are wrong, you are all knowing, we have no right to speak our mind and take part in this discussion.

Everytime you disregard idea's and opinions from others in such a condescending tone, you are only proving you are single minded and short sighted. Good luck my lordship...

Your condescending tone made me dismiss everything you said...

There is one inherent problem with all of this hurf blurf about Risk vs reward. You gain the ability to roll holes unannounced until you find a nice target you can kill then you have the suprise factor on your side for killing them.




Where is your risk?

You get to pick your targets so you aren't going to take on anything your gang can't handle. You aren't going to roll holes without having the majority of your fleet on standby and have a fairly accurate idea of fleet composition. So where is your risk? You get nothing but the rewards of the kills and the fact that you can make even more isk when you run sites.

Also don't feed me the bs about how you will engange anything or you won't pick a fight you won't win. Thats a load of garbage.

What would stop us from spamming combat probes to check for new and unexpected ships?

I appreciate it'd be less reliable given the popularity of cloaky fits in W-space, but still, all it takes is the appearance of some unknown probes in system or a lucky bit of timing and we'd at least know something was going on and be able to respond accordingly. "Maybe a K162 spawned" would be near the top of our scenario list, especially if we have eyes on the static.

under the new system u have 5 mins to gather perfect intel b4 they even know your there yeah totally balanced. Get rid of the stupid discovery changes and give us back the balanced system we had b4. tbh 70% of the holes I used to jump into with ppl farming there were no probes out. Most of the time probe spammers are in caps and stuck for a set time anyway. Just getting rid of discovery scan is enuf. yeah probe spam is boring to do that's why a lot of ppl just don't do it.........not to mention if I roll my hole and decide I don't like what I see on the other side I can just roll it again without ever having to worry about it being scanned down..........this is just ccp trying to say there was always a problem and it wasn't their system that broke things when in reality their system broke wh pvp. now they want to see if they mess it up even more.

Yo - if they had dreads logged off in the system it would be on the site with them to make the site running faster. so YES you can say with a high degree of certainty how many caps they have and how many people they got.

You have an opinion, I have an opinion. You only have one opinion. I have one opinion.

You don't hold the copyright on "what this game is about". It is about what I make it for me.

Get over yourself.

Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight.


If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums.

Just because Eve is different from other MMOs doesn't mean you get to say "You guys have to adapt to the game being how I want it"

There is a balance to be found and making it impossible for the defending party to get information is not that balance.

Last time I looked at the VoC killboard you all had plenty of kills some from nullsec, some for lowsec and some from w-space. The claim has been made that the instant spawning of a k-162 is hampering the pvp in w-space so terrible that w-space is no longer risky enough to be worth the reward. You seem to be getting plenty of kills for your effort so clearly pvp in w-space is working.

PVE players have adapted as you claim and you get less ganks or pvp because they adapted. So then pvpers make the cry that a mechanic is hampering their chosen play style. Why is it you wish for the PVE players to adapt but the pvpers just get mechanics changed and the game rebalanced?